You know I jus t can't with some sheith fans now....

[obsidianwolf]

I can understand the sentiment that all the characters deserved better than the mess that was S8

I can understand the sentiment that Shiro and/or Allura deserved better than the show treated them.

Same for most other characters with things like writing or focus.

But if your going to sit there and do fan works punishing Shiro for not ending up with Keith while saying Keith deserved better then frankly your showing your ass and I'm going to block you.

Shiro did nothing to Keith. First they are fictional objects who can't really do anything and second even in the fictional universe that was that shitty ending to canon Shiro didn't do a damn thing to Keith. There were no scenes of Keith asking Shiro out and him rejecting him, No Scenes of Keith crying or sad.

Comments

[zarabithia]

Yup. so many Keith fans showing their ass after S8.

[obsidianwolf]

I always kind of suspected way to many Keith stans were all about Keith to the exclusion of others when their complaints about earlier seasons were less about bad writing decisions and more about Keith not being the star.

But I was really surprised at how much vitriol they suddenly had for a fictional character they claimed to like and ship with their favorite.

[zarabithia]

To this day, I continue to see "Keith was done so dirty in S8!"

and I'm like "....????? where the fuck???"

I mean, he is treated better than literally everyone. He has his mother's adoration, the adoration of an entire people... who have no reason to adore him at all, all of Lotor's generals are apparently swearing their allegiance to him, he keeps The Black Lion until it leaves, he turns an bunch of assassins into a humanitarian organization... like, at what point does Keith ever suffer?

When people talk of Rey being a Mary Sue, I don't think about Luke Skywalker anymore. I think about Keith

[obsidianwolf]

Yep I mean Keith stans always kind of bugged me despite him being my second favorite character but I would always say at least they aren't as bad as Lance stans but it turned out they were just as bad and to make matters worse they got nearly everything they wanted. I mean Lance stans continue to irritate me but at least he remained a side character and didn't swallow the arcs of other characters.

I mean there is a major disconnect between the Keith of the earlier seasons and the star the eps wanted that was on full parade at the end.

[kari_izumi]

I'm coming in late to this party, but good God, yes to this. This whole "X belongs to Y" is irritating, especially when I've seen a handful of them shit on Allurance fans for Lance supposedly "winning" Allura as a prize (Mostly, that's Kallura stans, which are a whole other barrel of crazy I'm not about to dig into).

The romantic endgame was about the only thing Keith didn't get.

I mean Keith stans always kind of bugged me...but I would always say at least they aren't as bad as Lance stans but it turned out they were just as bad and to make matters worse they got nearly everything they wanted.

Dunno how familiar you are with star Trek, but there's a scene in Deep Space Nine where Quark the Ferengi is telling his nephew that sure humans are just happy and peachy when they worm and well-fed, but take away their creature conforms and "they'll become as bloodthirty as any Klingon."

I really don't do that scene justice, but it's the one that comes to mind when I think about what's happened to Sheith fandom since the finale aired, cuz the producers really did keep us well-fed for most of the series' run. and to an extend, I am sympathetic to all the nasty shit they've had thrown at them and how shipping Sheith was an underground dirty secret before Season 6. And that was truly godawful. But this reaction has only proven to everyone outside the fandom that both sides of the fandom is absolute batso nuts.

Ironically, I think it was only because no one wanted to give the Klantis any satisfaction in...well, anything...that kept heith fans from going entirely off the rails on the producers on Twitter. What they did in Discord, I don't know because I don't use them, but I suspect if it weren't for all their monkey howls, the reaction would've been far more nasty. I rather fandom just stick to bashing Shiro in their fanfic that giving the producers any more grief over shipping

[obsidianwolf]

I'm familiar with the scene (I watched Trek pretty much from Wrath of Khan through the end of Voyager but I always stayed out of the fandom) and it does apply a bit.

Voltron fandom really is the worst combination of the old fandom bull shit mixed with new fandoms ease of access to folks who actually worked on the show with a dash of coming along just as the anti movement really exploded and it really shows. There are plenty of fandoms just as if not more toxic than VLD but it was like a perfect storm of toxicity that overflowed on everything.

The sheer focus on shipping in the toxicity makes it even worse because there are legitimate complaints about nearly every aspect of VLD's writing and how it's exec producers have acted but folks are so bloody focused on shipping and so beyond the pale toxic to the producers (esp the jr. ep in typical misogynistic fashion) that it makes it very difficult to legitimately discuss the problems since it gets either lumped in with the shit stains and their abhorrent behavior or folks ignore to create some image of the beleaguered saint like ep's who wanted to give us everything but evil dreamworks stopped them.

I'm really curious how the next attempt at using the Voltron franchise is going to go because as bad as Voltron Force's reputation was it was limited to the few folks who watched it VLD was a big enough hit at first and a big enough flop in the last season that whatever happens next be it continuation or reboot there is going to be a lot of bad blood inherited right at the staart to deal with.

[kari_izumi]

Yeah...there was a shit ton of fandom sprawl for this series, so much so that I think most of the people who came into the show in the latter half of it's run were brought specifically because of all the wank behind it. Like I did I knew the names of most of the cast before I ever knew that Voltron itself was made of five robot lions 😄

As for the next reboot....eh, I really was beyond shocked that Paramount went forward with a Star Trek reboot less than four years after Enterprise and it's equally terrible finale. So I don't think it'll be impossible to recover from, but they may just wanna wait it out another ten years for this batch of VLD fans to grow up and hopefully be too busy with real life to shit over this reboot. :|

The sheer focus on shipping in the toxicity makes it even worse because there are legitimate complaints about nearly every aspect of VLD's writing and how it's exec producers have acted but folks are so bloody focused on shipping and so beyond the pale toxic to the producers (esp the jr. ep in typical misogynistic fashion) that it makes it very difficult to legitimately discuss the problems since it gets either lumped in with the shit stains and their abhorrent behavior or folks ignore to create some image of the beleaguered saint like ep's who wanted to give us everything but evil dreamworks stopped them. 
Ain't that the damn truth. The Adam Discourse was as much split by shipper lines even more neatly than opinions on Trump down political lines. And I'll be honest to say I did give writers the benefit of the doubt on that because I figured why else would they risk that backlash if not to put Shiro and Keith together after ship teasing at every fucking opportunity...but no, they really were just that stupid to introduce a gay love interest and kill him off.

And while I still think anyone who claimed to have needed therapy over that is either lying or certifiable, it just speaks to how utterly hapazard and scattershot the writing around Shiro post-death really was.

[obsidianwolf]

I think a new Voltron is pretty much inevitable since Dreamworks is only licensing the franchise they didn't buy it. I'm pretty sure there is probably a use it or loose it clause unlike Paramount who owns Trek out right and can wait much longer.

If I had to guess how soon will see a new voltron will depend on the long simmering Live action movie. If the movie is definitely going to be made in the next few years then we might get a bit of a break so the next series can be a film tie in.

If however like every other time the movie has come up it's going to be shuffled off to later then I think Dreamworks will have to try again with the Voltron license or risk losing it and the money they spent on it.

Honestly every interview that comes out makes it clear nearly everything wrong with VLD can be laid at the feet of those two EP's and makes me really wish the more experienced show runners and writers hadn't left the show in droves over its pre Season 7 & 8 seasons.

Though I am getting really sick of seeing folks continue to defend them and insist it was evil corporate at Dreamworks who caused the problems I mean even though they've admitted everything folks dislike about Season's 7 & 8 were their ideas even the epilogue and the total random match up for Shiro. Folks are still coming up with conspiracy theories to justify why so many shitty decisiosn were made instead of just accepting that what we got was pretty much the show the EP's wanted to make at the end.

[kari_izumi]

Yeah. Even the Adam thing was told to just make it more subtle, but no one at DW said they had to kill him outright. They could've written him as a civilian who left the area after Shiro went missing and never have to address his presence ever again. Bing, bang, boom, easy.

And let's be real: the only reason Sheith fans gave them a pass was 1)the antis were mostly the ones leading the charge on the outrage and 2) some thought Sheith was inevitable including me, admittedly because how else was "Shiro and Keith get even closer" supposed to be interpreted after season 6?

At least this hopefully puts to bed the idea that there was some other secret version of S8 that was being held in the vault somewhere. Nope, the EPs are just that goddamned inept and don't know their head from their ass and I feel no guilt lumping them in with Berman and Braga who ultimately ruined Trek and got that off the air for 15 years. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[obsidianwolf]

Unfortunately I think it is going to take them screwing over another show/franchise before most of their defenders realize it is mostly on them.

I've still seen folks asking for the real season 8 or if they accept that Season 8 was what the eps meant it to be it is evil dreamworks or WEP who are to blame not the EP's who admitted all this stuff was their ideas.


I just hope it isn't into the spiderverse because while no matter how bad a spiderman movie may be there will always be more featuring peter. Miles isn't assured more chances if things go wrong.

ON the bright side JDS is only the director and that's the one area he's competent in so as long as they have decent folks in the other departments it might not end up derailing the franchise.